Invite Friends

Topic: Environment

Results in this view: Y-sustainable 57% - Convince Me 0% - N-shameful 43%
Picture?type=square
Picture?type=square
Picture?type=square
Anonymous-user
  • 15
Picture?type=square
Picture?type=square
Anonymous-user
by anon-a4e4 How is this not going to increase the demand and black market and how will they prevent obvious corruption (the kind that got this pushed through) from allowing people to mark poached products as farm made? This is a tragedy for these amazing animals - the Chinese should be ashamed.
Picture?type=square
  • 1
Picture?type=square
By Jean O'Boyle How much of this unnecessary slaughter is for the "aphrodisiacs" market? Not a knock against sex - it's about money earned from the gullible.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey Your response could apply to any nonessential discretionary purchase.
Starbucks? Cosmetics? 60"flat screen TVs? All take their toll on the natural world.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Anonymous-user
by anon-a4e4 You are comparing the impact of killing the last of the world's tigers to powder their bones and make fake medicine to the impact of buying a coffee at Starbucks? This is called false equivalence - like your president does when he compares Nazis and their opponents. But I'm surprised you'd even do that here - I've understood you have no compassion for your fellow man (i.e. you are Republican), but why would you want the last of the world's rhinos and tigers killed? Obviously "farming" will be just a cover for the black market - or do we have to have the "well, I told you so" discussion when the animals are extinct?
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Jean O'Boyle What is the meaning behind Mark's avatar: one actually listening to someone, or the other person whispering bad things about people they don't like? Or is it just stylish folk art/street art to make him look hip?
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Jean O'Boyle Yes, because you're not a vain, selfish person …
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Jean O'Boyle Yes, Mark, because you're not a vain, selfish hypocrite yourself?
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey I don’t think for a moment that you are stupid, so the only explanation is intentional misunderstanding on your part.
And why do you bring Trump into this? Is it some sort of dog whistle or perhaps virtue signaling?
The point “farming” as you put it, is that provides the product desired without poachers having to decimate the wild populations of these animals. The “farmers” have a financial interest in maintaining and growing their animal for the sake of their personal financial interests which coincidentally benefits the survival as well as and growing the numbers of these rare species. Without this the animal farming practices, poaches will eventually wipe these two species out.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey It is Athena and Odysseus. I used the image to signify speaking and listening to one another, but there doesn’t seem to be much of either on TOK.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey Explain how you have come to your conclusions.
How do you perceive that I am vain?
What makes you think I am selfish?
What specifically have I been hypocritical about?
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Anonymous-user
by anon-a4e4 In a perfect world yes, but we live in the most imperfect of worlds here. Look at blood diamonds. Essentially the same thing where the Kimberly process was supposed to stop blood diamonds. Except some corrupt governments just stamped the blood diamonds as certified and nothing changed. I don't trust the Chinese at all to deal with this effectively and even if the top rung intends it, lower rungs will torpedo it. My prediction: you will hear vague claims of corruption and cheating always denied and then 10 years from now rhinos will be extinct in the wild. A special report on CNN will show that the Chinese systematically allowed falsely labeled products into their country. Trump will call it fake news during a White House fireside chat as he lies on his new Burmese tigerskin rug.

Trump is a dog whistle - anything evil, anything wrong, anything immoral and anything violating American values established over the last century - instantly brings to mind Trump. I literally tell my children we're ashamed to have such a vulgar and vile man as president. It is repulsive that we have a leader - someone children should look up to and emulate - who is a pig of a human.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey Tell me how you really feel....

It seems in our corrupt world, you would continue to not try to counter the poachers with a method of sustaining the population s of these rare animals because it might not work. Even if the poaching isn’t stopped, thes farms still have viable breeding stocks of these animals that might someday be used to reintroduce them into the wild.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Anonymous-user
by anon-a4e4 For that we have zoos. The goal is not to let the animal go extinct in the wild. This is the "all god's creatures are there for us to use and abuse" view of the world.

How about a different policy: anyone caught with rhino or tiger parts will be executed, whether seller or buyer?

I am in favor. That would work better.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey Zoos are one approach, but how has that been working to help this situation, it’s only gotten worse. Why close off other options, the operators of the farms have their financial interest aligned with the general well being propagation to increase the numbers of these rare animals.
As far as executions of poachers, trafficers and buyers of these illegal products, it is a primitive barbaric response.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Anonymous-user
by anon-a4e4 I'm not sure what's barbaric about this - you are trying to save the last of the world's creatures as people criminally (both morally and legally) play with and consume their bones for magic powers. Who is the primitive here?

The farmed products will increase the demand since it gives this nonsense legitimacy and the poachers will find ways to get their products labeled farm. The products will be expensive but legal to sell and this will further increase pressure on the remaining wild population. You may fool yourself into thinking that this isn't a recipe for the end of the animals in the wild, but then, you'd be a fool :)

Oh and the goal is NOT to keep wildlife alive in zoos and kill them everywhere else (i.e. zoos are NOT a solution, except to the need to preserve more of the species for breeding).
Reply
  • | about 1M ago
Picture?type=square
By Mark Tracey You haven't learned about supply and demand?
if the market for these products increases, the supply for profit will also increase. A portion of those profits could be allocated to sustain and protect the wild stock.
Reply
  • | about 1M ago