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Topic: US Economy

'Universal basic income'-should government guarantee everyone a minimum salary?

  • Comments: 208 |
  • Votes: 55
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Discussion started by Tok Staff:
Idea gaining currency as the labor market shifts: should everyone be guaranteed a minimum wage for life, regardless of whether they work?
Background article: ... Read more
Results in this view: Y-can Afford It 57% - Y-but Too Costly 0% - Convince Me 4% - N-bad 4 Society 39%
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By Guy SaintOnge You earn what you work for, if a man does no work, he should not eat, unless he is so disabled that he can't, then we help these people. Look, Everyone needs a hand up at any given point in time, this is why we have these programs set up, to be temporary and help a human being back up, not to support them their whole life!

Then you get these illegal invaders who 99% come here as leeches and want all they can get for free!! That is not godly, that is helping them stay ignorant, lazy and no good for the rest of this world..
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By William Dykeman seems pretty hypocritical coming from a man sucking off the government ssi gravy train
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By William Dykeman snce you are on ssi you already have a gauranteed income dont you?
hypocrite thats what a hypocrite looks like world
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Did he pay into it william?
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman no absolutely not! ssi is welfare, ssdi is social security you pay into ssdi thats why you get a lot more ssi is a welfare check for people who never did a lick of work in their entire lives, its okay if your totally messed up as crazy as guy is he could sweep a floor or pick up trash on the side of the road.. if he really beleives al that right wing crap he should go and get a job instead of taking money from the people he has so much conempt for, MY TAX MONEY!
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris No, sii is for the aged, blind and disabled people. People who can't work to no fault of their own.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman sure but he did not pay into it, thats ssdi
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By William Dykeman so ssi is a hand out ssdi is an insurance program you pay into people on ssdi paid fo their benifits ssi recipients are just sucking the government t^t
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris The point is so is fir those who can't work.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman my point is that if it worent for democrats hed be in a mental ward or a prsion or a back alley probably dead starved frozen, we take care of him and he spits on us, its my taxes that feed and house him, the least he could do is show some gratitude instead of mocking the very people who are resposible for caring for him
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Oh BS. none of that is true.
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By William Dykeman so did the republicans ever created social security? they were dead against it!
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By Kirby Liberty Harris They were rightfully against that ponzu scheme.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman This especially ugly lie resurfaces periodically like the Loch Ness Monster and the Abominable Snowman and is just as devoid of proof, but at least those fakes are harmless.

This especially ugly lie resurfaces periodically like the Loch Ness Monster and the Abominable Snowman and is just as devoid of proof, but at least those fakes are harmless. The same can’t be said of the presumed equality between Ponzi’s scam and Social Security, which was aired during last fall’s campaign by such eminent would-be Republican candidates as Chris Christie, Rick Perry, Mike Huckabee and Rand Paul in the gang scrimmages that passed for debates. In condensed form, here’s why.

Charles Ponzi was undeniably a swindler. In 1919 he was a resident of Boston, an apparently well-liked, clever and gregarious “businessman,” with a secret past that included two felony convictions and imprisonments, one for check forgery and the other for a role in a scheme to smuggle illegal immigrants from Canada into the United States.

What they claim is that the lockbox is a fraud, an accounting trick. It’s filled with government bonds, which are simply IOUs to ourselves, and will decline in value as the national debt, swollen by “entitlements” like Social Security and Medicare (but not gigantic military expenditures) mounts toward the stratosphere. They point to borrowings from it under certain legally permissible circumstances as “raids” to fund such sinful extravagances as programs to feed hungry children, fund research into curing treatable diseases or provide temporary unemployment benefits to working families whose jobs have been outsourced or automated.
https://billmoyers.com/story/resurrecting-another-big-lie-myth-social-security-ponzi-scheme/
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman then you dont know what a ponzi scheme is social security nver fit the definition again you make assumptions based on baseless assumptions you know nothing you should shut up and pay your taxes
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Bill Moyers. Lololololol. A biased liberal fool. I know what a Ponzi Scheme and SS fits it: a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman everyone has a bias
you may not like his does not make him wrong
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather ...
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman actually he has a good reputation the fact that you are biased against him says a lot about you not him
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By Kirby Liberty Harris You bring up Ad Hominem with me, when it's all you do. Laughable. I mocked Moyers because he doesn't just have a little bias (like we all do), but is heavy with it and blinds him in all he does.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris And liberals see him as having a good rep for being fair.
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By William Dykeman do you work?
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I work. I make good money. I use every legal loophole for taxes to keep more of my money and then take the money saved and give it to charities, that helps others, that I CHOOSE.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Though, I am semiretired at 48 and use my money and extra time to help those less fortunate. I am all about charity. And I use the time to be an activist for protect human rights and freedom for all.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman and you are so entitled as long as you stay within the law
i have no objection
i object to trump skirting the law
if he payed his taxes perhaps you and i would see a reduction in our rates
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman i disagree with very very little of that
my only objection is that charities dont do enough
welfare programs are much more effective at reducing poverty
if youd like me to i cant
share links proving that
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris First, I am not entitled. 2nd, Trump did it all within the law. 3rd, I think if they cut spending then none of us would have to pay a lot.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Actually, welfare programs have not reduced poverty at all. They actually have increased poverty. If liberals, especially rich millionaires would take their wealth and create charities we could end poverty with them alone.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman they have read this it depends on if you consider them poor beofre or after they get all their free stuff, because after they are fine

The War On Poverty Worked - The Real US Poverty Rate Is 4.8%

For back at that beginning welfare was in cash (or checks perhaps, but counted as income to the family). Today almost all welfare is either in goods and kind (Medicaid, Section 8, SNAP and so on) or through the tax system (EITC). Which is the better system to use isn't really important. What is important to note is that the two numbers are obviously going to be very different. The 1960s number is after the things done to alleviate poverty, the 201x number is before most of the things we do to alleviate poverty. And this really does make a difference. After all, we spend around $800 billion on poverty alleviation. We'd like to think that it is moving the needle on the dial just a little bit at least.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman your white are you not? and male? trust me you are
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By Kirby Liberty Harris No the war on poverty failed. Poverty is worse than ever. Grew when charities stopped when Gov got into it. I am not white. I have Jewish and American Indian in me.
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By William Dykeman Figure 2 provides a first approximation of how correcting the 2013 poverty rate for noncash food and housing benefits, refundable tax credits, and upward bias in the CPI–U would change the 2013 poverty rate. With these corrections the official poverty rate falls from 14.5 to 4.8 percent, making the 2013 rate roughly a quarter of the 1964 rate (19.0 percent). If we were to lower the poverty threshold for cohabiting couples to match that for married couples the 2013 poverty rate would have fallen even more.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/08/24/the-war-on-poverty-worked-the-real-us-poverty-rate-is-4-8/#32a272bc1a38 i have govt data to prove i am right
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By William Dykeman a jewish indian ugh oy vay
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman Revenue Neutral Law and Legal Definition. The term Revenue Neutral implies changes in the tax laws that result in no change in the amount of revenue coming into the government's coffers. In other words, a tax proposal is revenue neutral if it neither increases nor decreases tax revenues when compared to existing law.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman Here’s another way of looking at American poverty. The official US poverty rate is 14.8% — with an update due next month — or 2.3 percentage points higher than in 2007, a year which ended with the official start of the Great Recession. By comparison, the poverty rate in 1964 when LBJ announced the War on Poverty was 19%. So some improvement in that top-line number.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Smoke and mirrors. Use enough words and use them in certain ways and you can make the data say anything. Poverty has grown.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I am Scottish, Irish, English, German, French, American Indian (Pamunkey), Jewish; and my wife is Polish, Scottish, Irish, English, American Indian (Lakota), Italian, Jewish. And my step mom is black. Lol.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman i am german dutch and french almost a member of the master race, except for that damned jew blood (actually thats boosted my iq by a good 10 points)
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman guy you already recieve a basic income if you get ssi you are recieving this rogram already it irks me you would begrudge to others the same sort of benifit you live offof, the same benifit that feeds you houses you clothes you
and yet you would begrudge others.. i do not understand that at all
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris He rejects it for able body folks. SSI is for disabled. Apples and oranges.
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman guy could work he could do somethgn constructive instead of insulting people here and being vile and hateful
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By William Dykeman define able bodied what does that mean if you 60 years old without a high school diploma? how abled are you then?
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Many disabled can work. We should always be nice.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Able bodied means you are not physically disabled. I would add mental disability as another good reason for ssi. Though even the most physically and mentally disabled can do some kind of work.
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By William Dykeman well okay but guy is such a rick
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By William Dykeman he isnt hes mantal and trust me in amny ways thats worse
maybe hes too nuts to follow and order
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Well if he is to mental to work, then maybe he should be on ssi.
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By William Dykeman maybe he should be in a care facility
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By William Dykeman not mine either but i think people like him get too wound up in places like this they get psychotic and then become violent and delusional, i think maybe he should be in a care facility i dont want to punish him or make him suffer i just dont want him hurting others, he can jump in the lake for all i care i just dont want him taking anyone with him
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By Kirby Liberty Harris None of my business.
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By William Dykeman are you not your brothers keeper?
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By William Dykeman you want him kidnappiny your daughter? thats what these zealots do/ the kidnapp and rape kids remember elizabeth smart? that the sort guy is he is dangerous
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris The bible tells you that you are your brothers keeper (people you know), but tells you to not get in your neighbors business or a strangers.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris ^Directly above^ See more bearing of false witness and libel. Morally bankrupt people with no character make false claims such as this.
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  • | about 1M ago