Topic: Social Issues

Tech 'Big Brother' lets authorities track COVID patients, contacts via apps-OK?

  • Comments: 85 |
  • Votes: 5
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Discussion started by Tok Staff:
More than half in US say they won't install contact tracing apps on phones while the Chinese are already putting cameras in people's houses. Is this necessary?
Background article: ... Read more
Results in this view: Y-unavoidable 60% - Y-if Voluntary 20% - Convince Me 20% - N-slippery Slope 0%
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By William Dykeman i think americans need to grow up and stop quibbling about emergency measures we are in extraordinary times civl rights are not even of scondary concern everythng is about safety and security no you have no rights, so grow up and act like men not spoiled children
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By Wallace Freeman “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams on wealth and liberty
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By William Dykeman lol said the slave owner, its funny the british used to note this too the peole who used to bleet on and on about freedom and liberty owned slaves raped kids, and slaughtered native americans, this isnt about liberty it never was it is about your PRIVILEGE YOUR so called freedom sits on the corpses and backs of the oppressed no more its your tunr to feel the whip
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By Kirby Liberty Harris No Founders raped kids. Bulsh:t. Many of the Founders, who gave us an awesome system, inherited slaves and worked to get rid of them and did not kill Indians. Our colonies were oppressed and they Brits ran the slave trade.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris According to your logic, if we have no rights, then it is OK to own slaves, rape kids and slaughter Indians. WHICH IT IS NOT!
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By Kirby Liberty Harris You cant have it both ways Willie, Either we have rights and no one can abuse anyone else OR we don't have rights and we can do whatever we want to each other and it is not wrong.
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By Dan Anderson The forefathers never killed native Americans? History disagrees with you.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/thanksgiving-pequot-massacre_b_4337722

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Washington ordered his slaves to be released AFTER HIS DEATH. Why not while he was still alive?

No, the colonies were NOT oppressed.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Wrong Dan. I never said forefathers. I said Founders. That thanksgiving massacre was not the Founders, that was a group of people who went to far in a revenge killing because they though a white man was killed by Indians.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Dan, I never said George Washington and Thomas Jefferson didn't own slaves. I said many Founders worked to get rid of their slaves during their lives. And YES, the colonies were oppressed. That is why we declared independence and fought a war.
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By William Dykeman they were total hypocrites
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Every human has some hypocrisy. But most of the kry Founders had very little.
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By Mark Tracey Yet at some level, they must have realized it and made the choice to promote liberty for all. It is a long process to change centuries of oppressive culture.
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By William Dykeman they were complete hypocrites how can you speak about liberty when you own slaves how can you oppose slavery and own slaves they were the most hypocritical of all
and the british aristocracy were right to point it out, ironically the british often treated slaves better and freed them sooner that tels you what sort of phoneys the founders were
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  • | about 1M ago
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By William Dykeman ok ok you got me there, my beef is people who think time stopped in 1789, it didnt society keeps evolving, but i must admit you make a very valid point, i'm gonna have to conceed the point if i want to be honest, which i try to be , often with mixed results, but i try
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I am glad you finally have seen the error of your ways. The Founders were not hypocrites any more than anyone else. They worked hard to eliminate slavery within the time they were in and with the tools they had. They were not prefect.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Teh problem is the good Founders caved into the bad ones to get all the States on board. They should have told South Carolina and Georgia to shove t and had the slaves freed n the Constitution like they wanted to.
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By William Dykeman “Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.”

― Bertrand Russell
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Again Bertie was an idiot and wrong about true capitalism and liberty. He is describing the maxim of crony capitalism aka corporatism aka government hybrid capitalism aka soft fascism..
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By Mark Tracey Russell was wrong...
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By William Dykeman yeah tell that to people who work in the meatpacking industry!
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By Kirby Liberty Harris That is a bogus point. That is an outlier.
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By William Dykeman no it isnt if it is go work in a meat factory and get sick and die
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Yes it is, because this is the first time in modern history someone has died in a meat packing house.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Also, they don't have to work there.
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By William Dykeman right like its that easy for an unskilled person to find a another job esp now! but thanks for proving to the world what a Dick you are
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Sure it is easy for unskilled workers to get other jobs. Not know, but that is everybody, not just unskilled and it i big government's fault by forcing lock downs.
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By William Dykeman Slave owning was common among early presidents; of the first twelve, only John Adams (2) and his son John Quincy Adams (6) never owned slaves, although two of the others (Martin Van Buren and William Henry Harrison) did not own slaves while serving as president.
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By William Dykeman This is a list of presidents of the United States who owned slaves. Slavery in the United States was legal from its beginning as a nation, having been practiced in North America from early colonial days. The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution formally abolished slavery, though the practice effectively ended only after the end of the American Civil War. In total, twelve presidents owned slaves at some point in their lives, eight of whom owned slaves while serving as president. George Washington was the first president to own slaves, including while he was president. Zachary Taylor was the last president to own slaves during his presidency, and Ulysses S. Grant was the last president to have owned a slave at some point in his life.

Slave owning was common among early presidents; of the first twelve, only John Adams (2) and his son John Quincy Adams (6) never owned slaves, although two of the others (Martin Van Buren and William Henry Harrison) did not own slaves while serving as president.

The U.S. president who owned the most slaves was Thomas Jefferson, with 600+ slaves, followed by George Washington, with 200 slaves. The presidents who owned the fewest slaves were Martin van Buren and Ulysses S. Grant, with one slave each.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_who_owned_slaves
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By Dan Anderson William - Isn't it obvious that people like Kirby has never actually studied the Constitution of the United States.

About the issue of slavery, why do you think the Constitution states that the "negro" is only ⅗ of a person by the count of the census?
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Dan, what ever you self righteous, arrogant snob. I have studied and know all about the Founding and the US Constitution. I probably know more about it in my little pinky then you do in your whole body.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris The negro as 3/5 a person was a compromise to get SC and GA to vote to create the Constitution. Adams and Jefferson wanted to get rid of slavery with the Declaration and Constitution.
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By William Dykeman liberty was for white men and thats they way people like kirby still think they are reluctant to tell you so but with a little prodding they admit it
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  • | about 1M ago
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By Dan Anderson Kirby - Wow, do you NEED TO LEARN about US History! The Declaration of Independence was a document that was meant as a precursor to departure! It had NOTHING to do with individual rights, but to break away from another country.

Jefferson wanted to get rid of slavery? He owned hundreds of slaves! Upon his death, they were SOLD to pay the debts he owed! John Adams, on the other hand, did NOT own slaves. Your argument, therefore, is invalid.
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By William Dykeman kirby is super lame he cant argue
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Why do you make up lies Willie? am for liberty for all. You know you lie.
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By William Dykeman I am the most honest person you will ever talk to, you just cant look yourself in the mirror
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Dan - Wow, do you NEED TO LEARN about US History? The Declaration was a document that had everything to do with individual rights. That is the reason they were breaking away, because England was violating their rights.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Try reading the Declaration sometime. If you knew history, then you would know that Jefferson wanted to mention that all men, including African slaves deserved to be free, but that draft was voted down.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Jefferson and Madison abhorred slavery and tried to find ways to free their slaves, but there were to many laws and the fear that IF they freed their slaves then they would be re-slaved.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris

Jefferson wanted his slaves freed when he died, but his family sold them to pay his debts. And Madison didn't want his slaves sold with out their permission, but his Dolley ignored his wishes, but her son fulfilled his wishes and freed them all.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Dan, here is the Declaration on rights: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I can argue just fine Willie.
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By William Dykeman dont you dare talk of liberty, you endorser of slave society you
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By Wallace Freeman All of which goes to show that its up to the individual to decide if one would rather be free or enslaved and act accordingly. Obviously there are some who prefer slavery to freedom and there are those who will oblige them.
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By William Dykeman no an individual hasfew choices in a fascist society it is up to the collective to create proper conditions, there is little choice in life we are programed by eonvornent and genetics to act a certai way, a few elite can over ride the program it isup to exceptional people like me, to be a vangaurd for a brave new world
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By Wallace Freeman There is no collective. Only individuals that act with varying degrees of consensus.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris lol, wrong willy.
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By Dan Anderson Wallace - What does this have to do with the medical profession and their ability to track an individual patient of COVID-19 to find out where he may have caught it? Remember, people with STDs HAVE to report their contacts. What is the difference, especially given that COVID is far more deadly than Syphilis .
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By Dan Anderson Wallace - "Love wealth greater than liberty"??? What on earth does that mean? Health, yes. Wealth, no.

To protect the health of fellow citizens is a far more important issue than claiming "isolation infringes on my rights as a free citizen". Do you remember the story of Typhoid Mary? How many people did she kill without even knowing she was an asymptomatic carrier? The same applies to COVID-19. One is asymptomatic for up to 5-10 days.
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By Wallace Freeman If health is the paramount concern government must be abolished as it is far more dangerous than any other institution on Earth.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I think government tyrants need to grow up and have their a$$ez handed to them literally, IF they don' stop violating our civil liberties. We have rights 100%. Safety and security is a secondary concern to civil liberties which are NO 1. Just ask Ben Franklin.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Ben Franklin
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By Dan Anderson Kirby - Ben was not around during the time of the Spanish Flu of 1918 or the Black Plague, was he. Are you saying that the health of the society is not as important as your individual right to spread a deadly virus to many others?
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By Kirby Liberty Harris See, now you are talking propaganda and trash. I NEVER said I have an individual right to spread a deadly virus to many others. I said we have an right to go my way freely, unless it is known i have a deadly virus.
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By Dan Anderson How can you KNOW if you have a deadly virus given that it takes up to two weeks to go from asymptomatic to symptomatic? Therefore, again, your point is moot. Nice try, son. You have much to learn.

Suggestion: Get out of your "me-ism" thinking and try thinking of other people, too. Your "I want..." attitude is extremely selfish thinking, excluding others from what they want.
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By William Dykeman dude can i chime no one is more collectivist here than me i admire both china and sweden, but what do you notice about sweden they never shut down, this whole thing is a crock and this is what i say unless there is a compleling reason? you cant take peoples rights away, school shootings andcovid are compeling reasons but heres the thing..remember prohibition people did ntlike it so they didnt comply , american hate gun alws they wont comply and people are sick of this , and thye cant pay their bills, we know what will hapen when we un shut dwon sweden, sure people will die old people feeble people, but so what they die anyways lids die of cancer it sucksbut thats life we dont shiut down everything just because some kid dies.. people die its part of life
ad i for one have had enough theere no vaccine theres no testing! and people are gong crazy? thye dont have food they cant pay their rent are you inssane! i'm afraind after two months i have to side with kirby enough this is pointless at some poont we have to come out some will live some will die, let god and or nature decide
i want my freedom back!
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By Kirby Liberty Harris You can't know if I have a deadly virus. That is the point. If the government can not prove I am endangering others, then they can not take action against me. So my point is NOT moot and your point is wrong.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris Also Dan, you are the one in me-ism. You are all about forcing others to stay home because you are scared of getting the virus. I am 100% concerned for the vulnerable, so I don't go near them. I social dissonance and take precautions. So quit your self-righteous BS.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris My solution is good for all people. The vulnerable people and those afraid of getting the virus stay home and the rest of us act careful as we go on our way and we stay away from vulnerable people.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris You don't irreparably destroy millions upon million of lives, because people will die from a virus. It is sad people die from viruses, are we to be forced home every time a new deadly virus comes our way?
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I have no "I want..." attitude and am not having extremely selfish thinking, excluding others from what they want. That is you. You want to force the healthy to destroy their lives because you fear the latest, and not the last deadly virus. You are the definition of selfish, Dan.
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By Dan Anderson Kirby - You couldn't be more wrong. I could not even give a damn if I did get the COVID virus. My concern is for others around me.

What is social dissonance? Are you sure that is what you really meant?

Who are the "vulnerable people"? Define the term, please. How about the White House staff? They are coming down with it. How are they "vulnerable" and what makes them different from you?

Again, how do you KNOW you are not a carrier? You could be asymptomatic, yet spreading it because you are only "staying away from the vulnerable", which happens to be about all of humanity.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris My concern is also about others around me, and that is why I stay away from the vulnerable (those that will die), which includes my parents and other relatives. I also am careful when I am around anyone else. I social distance.

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By Kirby Liberty Harris But the solution of keeping us all at home will destroy more lives and cause people to be homeless, starving and more will die. Stay at home and shutdowns are not sustainable for this or the next virus. The solution will end up being worse than the virus.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris We need to have people out there, so we can gain natural immunities. The experts say we will all get it, and the only reason to stay home was to slow the spread, not to prevent it, so the hospitals would not be overwhelmed.
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By Kirby Liberty Harris I meant distance. Keep up.
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